The end of desktop applications?

This forum is reserved for everything you want to talk about. It could be about programming, opinions, open source programs, development in general, or just cool stuff to share!
eranif
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 607
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2005 7:10 pm
Location: Israel

The end of desktop applications?

Post by eranif » Sat Feb 10, 2007 11:00 pm

Hi guys,

I am constantly hearing people saying that the end of desktop applications is near and in the coming years (2-3) most of the applications will be web based.

Looking at Google's applications: Docs & Spreadsheet, Gmail, iRows and other makes you think that this is the way the world is heading to, no more installtions just open your browser click the domain and start working.

I even saw a demonstration of a very impressive IDE on the web (by TIBCO company).

Soon people will install OS just for the browser and games

What do you think?

Just to make sure: I am not talking about servers, but about client applications
IDE: CodeLite + wxCrafter
OS: All
https://wxcrafter.codelite.org
https://codelite.org

FlyingIsFun1217
Super wx Problem Solver
Super wx Problem Solver
Posts: 497
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2006 9:58 pm

Post by FlyingIsFun1217 » Sat Feb 10, 2007 11:20 pm

I honestly can't ever see this happening, because no matter how fast your internet is (not to mention that not everybody has higher speeds internet), making everything a client side app would just bog down computers.

And to end my rant, think of it as an egg-and-chicken problem: How are you going to access client side apps without having something on the computer to access and parse/whatever else it? :)

FlyingIsFun1217

phlox81
wxWorld Domination!
wxWorld Domination!
Posts: 1387
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 7:49 pm
Location: Germany
Contact:

Post by phlox81 » Sun Feb 11, 2007 1:29 am

I don't think so.
Google & co like to spread that myth, but I don't think theres much truth in it.
In fact, you wanna be able to use the software without a connection to the internet.
Webbased Apps will grow, but they probably aren't able to replace desktop apps.
Also, for me, I can't think of having a computer with only a browser installed. :lol:

Jorg
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 3971
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 9:38 pm
Location: Delft, Netherlands
Contact:

Post by Jorg » Sun Feb 11, 2007 9:37 am

What does seem to happen is that the cross platform boundary is beginning to narrow. wxWidgets will eventually be one of the toolkits that enable users to develop a GUI app that runs on both linux and windows. But KDE is already working on a Windows version of their desktop manager, Gnome might follow. There is already a GTK layer for windows, and Qt as well. Eventually a competition will be going on which toolkit is the best, where wxWidgets started to be good at, others will follow.

http://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/0,1000 ... 111,00.htm

But only a web browser, nahhh .. people like speed, they will always like speed. And using a web browser for an app, maybe only small tools but I would not dare to think that we once again have to buy a kick-ass CPU and more mem to get the same performance we had 10 years ago ... ;-)

Regards,
- Jorgen
Forensic Software Engineer
Netherlands Forensic Insitute
http://english.forensischinstituut.nl/
-------------------------------------
Jorg's WasteBucket
http://www.xs4all.nl/~jorgb/wb

biplab
I live to help wx-kind
I live to help wx-kind
Posts: 194
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2006 4:16 am
Location: Singapore
Contact:

Post by biplab » Sun Feb 11, 2007 2:18 pm

Honestly speaking I don't think so.

Both of them has some pros and some cons.

For web based apps, portability is great. But you need to consider the bandwidth they need. It may be available in Developed countries. But it's not possible in near future in other developing countries. There you still need to stay within 1 GB monthly transfer limits with broadband plans. :x

Again performance is a serious issue. I tried Google Spreadsheet App once. But it's really slow even with the fast connection of Singapore. It often tries to transfer data to server for temporary storage.

Now add the memory usage issue with this. With just 6 tabs open, my favourite browser Firefox is consuming about 190MB (Including Pagefile Usage). Ajax based apps are nice but they are simply resource hog. Now simply start 5-6 windows of web-based apps and you'll notice the memory usage is skyrocketting like anything. Web based apps often make the browser irresponsive.

As far as my desktop apps are concerned, there are plenty of choices starting from barebone Notepad to Fully featured Word. They also don't need internet connection to type a simple document like a letter or some others.

I would hate the idea of using a Web-based IDE. To write a code to add two numbers would need an powerful internet connection. It's stupid. Let's not forget the debugging and other related problems. :wink:

Performance will be the key issue in this regard. It's difficult for a script to match the speed of a native code app.

Another point is security. Can you trust them? Should you write sensitive documents with them? I don't think so.

I believe web-based apps will be helpful for some quick document preparation. But for heavily formatted complex documents, people will trust desktop based apps. :)

Regards,

Biplab
Blog: http://biplab.in

IDE: Code::Blocks
Compilers: GCC, MSVC, etc. ;)
OS: WinXP-SP2 & Linux.

toxicBunny
Super wx Problem Solver
Super wx Problem Solver
Posts: 424
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2005 8:44 pm
Location: Alabama, USA

Post by toxicBunny » Mon Feb 12, 2007 2:45 pm

I don't think that web-based apps will ever completely replace desktop apps, but there are times/places when this will happen.

At my current job, I'm re-writing several desktop applications to be web-based. Admittedly, these aren't extremely complicated applications (mainly scheduling applications for internal processes), but I think the conversion will be a good thing. There will be less hassle for future development and maintenance. There is no need to push the application to the client computers. Security can be controlled on the server.

However, there are some obstacles as others have mentioned. What you can do on a web page is somewhat limited unless you start using proprietary controls, flash, ActiveX, or java applets. Javascript can also be very processor intensive and somewhat sluggish at times. I don't want to start a war, but one thing I've found with my on web-based apps is that Firefox tends to be at least twice as fast on intensive Javascript applications. Too bad the company mandates the use of Internet Explorer. Firefox does generally use a lot of memory though.

Essentially, most people will probably stick with desktop applications, but, for many inter-company or distributed applications, web-based apps can be a good alternative.

Just my observations and thoughts...

-Scott
wxMSW 2.6.2, VS 2002, 2003 and 2005, Code::Blocks and mingw, Windows XP Pro

eranif
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 607
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2005 7:10 pm
Location: Israel

Post by eranif » Tue Feb 13, 2007 10:45 pm

Hi toxicBunny and all,

I raised this issue because in my company (small start-up company) we are writing the client application using Javascript, OpenLaszlo and JSP.

We are doing this because all our customers do not want to maintain desktop applications, they want a single installation to all of their users (which can be hundreds of users if not thousands in some cases)
Just imagine the upgrade procedure for such a huge number of users for a company ...

Using a web based client does not bind you to a single computer, you can work on it using any computer which has internet connection!

I think that what can fit into a web browser, will be ported to web browser. applications such as Outlook, Thunderbird and such will die eventually in favour of web interfaces such as Gmail, Yahoo mail and other.

Btw, even outlook offers a rich web client ,... (If I am not mistaken, XMLHttpRequest, the core AJAX object, was developed by MS for that purpose)

Firefox vs. IE - IE7 is much better than IE6 but still, Mozilla has some nice features that one can only dream for IE (e.g. the <canvas> tag, to allow drawing on the browser client area directly!)

Firefox has evolved to be more than a browser, it is a platform on which one can develop a complete web solution and use its many expansions to debug / test it (one of the famous add-ons is the excellent Firebug for Javascript debugging and DOM exploring)

Well, Thats my thoughts on the subject
Eran
IDE: CodeLite + wxCrafter
OS: All
https://wxcrafter.codelite.org
https://codelite.org

priyank_bolia
wxWorld Domination!
wxWorld Domination!
Posts: 1339
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2005 8:10 am
Location: BANGALORE, INDIA
Contact:

Post by priyank_bolia » Wed Feb 14, 2007 8:16 am

I decided to answer the question after hearing a lot of negative answers. As this forum is not the right medium for my answer, I posted it here:
Web Based Applications: A glimpse to the future applications

VonGodric
Earned some good credits
Earned some good credits
Posts: 103
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 9:31 pm
Contact:

Post by VonGodric » Wed Feb 14, 2007 9:51 am

I don't believe it either: having both in "web development" and "desktop application development" I can say that not for a while.

However more and more web services will be introduced into applications. Web as a whole is not simply fast enough to transmit enough data for example to completely replace Excel or Word. Another thing is loading times...

However I personally believe in .NET style applications where one binary will easily run many platforms without any modifications (.net, mono, ...) especially considering how Microsoft is pushing .NET to become defacto development enviroment on windows...


Scorpion
Knows some wx things
Knows some wx things
Posts: 37
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 7:26 am
Location: United States

The end is the beginning...

Post by Scorpion » Sun Mar 18, 2007 1:51 pm

Two reasons that are paramount in our society from a global vantage are: privacy and convenience. Both of these fundamentals coexist to shape our social comfort zone and are both present and accessible through locally driven software systems.

Even a simpleton could argue the longevity of personal software longevity with this case; you will need a computational device unless you are psychic, and you will also need and OS, a browser APPLICATION, and drivers software locally installed for I/O.

I remember the big hype about web-portals and over compensation for content management systems, and its all blah!

People do not care about corporate hype platforms they want results and they don't want to play around to get them. Another serious and predominant factor is cost of service comparison between having a serviceable system regardless of network connectivity. Internet service is neither free nor inexpensive; unless you are programming with the Google IDE you will probably have service charges to contend with in excess. Real simple to keep it real simple.

NO the GOOGLE IDE does not exist, at least not that I am aware...

Do not believe the hype and never become the hype :D

priyank_bolia
wxWorld Domination!
wxWorld Domination!
Posts: 1339
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2005 8:10 am
Location: BANGALORE, INDIA
Contact:

Post by priyank_bolia » Tue Mar 20, 2007 6:43 am

Adobe releases Apollo alpha today. Have a look:
http://www.adobe.com/devnet/videos/apol ... index.html

venkat_sp
Earned a small fee
Earned a small fee
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2008 2:20 pm

Post by venkat_sp » Tue Feb 17, 2009 10:18 am

Here is a nice post

http://venkat-sp.blogspot.com/

venkat_sp
Earned a small fee
Earned a small fee
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2008 2:20 pm

Post by venkat_sp » Tue Feb 17, 2009 10:18 am

Here is a nice post

http://venkat-sp.blogspot.com/

computerquip
Experienced Solver
Experienced Solver
Posts: 72
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 7:13 pm
Location: $(#wx)\src

Post by computerquip » Fri Mar 06, 2009 5:23 pm

Due to large amounts of security risks of leaving important information on the internet, I highly doubt everything will ever be completely online.

Post Reply